Questions about uniform protocol

[The Mullen]

I was looking at the official jag website
www.paramount.com/television/jag
and something struck me about Catherine Bell's uniform. It looks like
the rest of the cast are wearing their court appearance uniforms, and
Catherine's is same colour, but she wears her Green uniform in court.

I've never seen her in this uniform. If this is infact her dress
uniform; should the rest of the cast be wearing dress whites if they
were all meant to be wearing equivelant classes of uniform.

Also some other questions: -

1, How is it that appears everyone wears the same uniform at the same
time. i.e if they are in blues, everyone's in blues; likewise khaki
and whites? Is tomorrow's dress code posted on a board the night
before.

2, Can someone determine by themselves that tomorrow I'll wear whites;
in A Few Good Men, Kevin Pollack says to Tom Cruise before they fly to
Cuba "remember to wear the whites", when they get there Demi Moore is
wearing khaki and the two herberts are standing out like sore thumbs
wearing whites. It seems strange that in a uniformed service they have
a choice to wear whichever uniform they prefer.

3, Also interesting that the Marine Barracks C.O points out "those
faggoty white uniforms". Would a marine commander have a problem with
navy personnel wearing the whites.

4, Again same film, Tom Cruise notices that Jack Nicholson (Colonel)
is wearing his class E uniform for court. Does he (Jack) have a choice
in how he can present himself in court?

5, Haven't seen this style in Jag, but in GI Jane, at the base where
they start SEAL training, the navy personnel including Demi as she
arrives are all wearing black. When the Captain who appears to be
wearing regular blues in his office addresses the trainees, next he is
wearing full black but with a regular Captains cap. Does this uniform
actually exist in the navy and is it only confined to SEAL camps?

So the navy can choose black, khakhi, blues or whites (excluding
formal dress white)?

And the marines can choose just green and take the jacket off still
green but with khakhi shirt underneath. Maybe this is why Jack was so
eggy?

Comments would be appreciated

[Sabrina]

Post by The Mullen

Post by The Mullen
I've never seen her in this uniform. If this is infact her dress

uniform; should the rest of the cast be wearing dress whites if they
were all meant to be wearing equivelant classes of uniform.

I think it is a dress uniform and I would say she's in it so that she
blends in with everyone else. When you're doing promo shots as an ensemble
cast you don't want anyone be more prominent than someone else

Post by The Mullen
1, How is it that appears everyone wears the same uniform at the same
time. i.e if they are in blues, everyone's in blues; likewise khaki
and whites? Is tomorrow's dress code posted on a board the night
before.

I've been told that uniforms are seasonal and certain dates mark the
change. Khaki and summer white are both spring/summer uniforms. I believe
that the khaki is more of a "work" uniform and the whites are for looking a
little more spiffy.

Post by The Mullen
3, ... "those
faggoty white uniforms". Would a marine commander have a problem with
navy personnel wearing the whites.

Probably not, but you have to admit that they are a little fruity
looking compared to BDUs. More than likely the comment wasn't about the
uniform itself but about that fact that two lawyers show up (basically in
enemy territory) wearing them.

Those are my answers, but who knows if I'm even close to correct.

Bree

[Jon in Da UP of MI]

Post by Sabrina

Post by The Mullen

Post by The Mullen
I've never seen her in this uniform. If this is infact her dress

uniform; should the rest of the cast be wearing dress whites if they
were all meant to be wearing equivelant classes of uniform.

I think it is a dress uniform and I would say she's in it so that she
blends in with everyone else. When you're doing promo shots as an ensemble
cast you don't want anyone be more prominent than someone else

Post by The Mullen
1, How is it that appears everyone wears the same uniform at the same
time. i.e if they are in blues, everyone's in blues; likewise khaki
and whites? Is tomorrow's dress code posted on a board the night
before.

I've been told that uniforms are seasonal and certain dates mark the
change. Khaki and summer white are both spring/summer uniforms. I believe
that the khaki is more of a "work" uniform and the whites are for looking a
little more spiffy.

Post by The Mullen
3, ... "those
faggoty white uniforms". Would a marine commander have a problem with
navy personnel wearing the whites.

Probably not, but you have to admit that they are a little fruity
looking compared to BDUs. More than likely the comment wasn't about the
uniform itself but about that fact that two lawyers show up (basically in
enemy territory) wearing them.
Those are my answers, but who knows if I'm even close to correct.
Bree

The Uniform of the day is specified by seasons and by the CO of the unit.

Dress Blues for Winter (Navy) Whites for Summer (Navy) Formal Duty (Trials)

Kaki all year round work uniform both navy and marines

BDU combat units or person TDY to a combat unit

[White Jacket]

Post by The Mullen
I was looking at the official jag website
www.paramount.com/television/jag
and something struck me about Catherine Bell's uniform. It looks like
the rest of the cast are wearing their court appearance uniforms, and
Catherine's is same colour, but she wears her Green uniform in court.
I've never seen her in this uniform. If this is infact her dress
uniform; should the rest of the cast be wearing dress whites if they
were all meant to be wearing equivelant classes of uniform.

Yes, it is the USMC dress blue uniform. There are a few dressy
occasions when the Navy uniform is Service Dress Blue (blue/black coat
and tie for officers/chiefs, blue crackerjacks for E-6 and below) and
the equivalent Marine uniform is Blue Dress B (blues with ribbons
instead of medals).

The Marines and the Army have special blue dress uniforms, while the
Navy, USAF and USCG use their coat-and-tie service uniforms for full
dress. The Navy Service Dress Blue is equivalent to a civilian
business suit, which is why it is worn in court. For full dress, it
is worn with full size decorations and medals instead of ribbons,
white gloves and a sword for officers (sword optional for lieutenant
and below).

The USMC green service dress is usually equivalent to USN service
dress blue.

The USN officers' "dress whites" are actually called Service Dress
White, the warm weather version of the blues. The Uniform Regs SAY
this is equivalent to civilian suit and tie, but nobody ever wears
them except for dressy occasions. Like the blues, adding medals and
sword makes them full dress. USN officers and chiefs used to have a
khaki coat and tie uniform for warm weather that was less formal than
the whites but more formal than the short sleeve khakis or whites, but
this has been gone for 25 years or more.

Post by The Mullen
Also some other questions: -
1, How is it that appears everyone wears the same uniform at the same
time. i.e if they are in blues, everyone's in blues; likewise khaki
and whites? Is tomorrow's dress code posted on a board the night
before.

It's posted/announced every morning. The uniform of the day is
usually a "service" uniform, and the Navy can be pretty picky about
this. If you are wearing a "working" uniform you have to change to go
to chow, that sort of thing.

Post by The Mullen
2, Can someone determine by themselves that tomorrow I'll wear whites;
in A Few Good Men, Kevin Pollack says to Tom Cruise before they fly to
Cuba "remember to wear the whites", when they get there Demi Moore is
wearing khaki and the two herberts are standing out like sore thumbs
wearing whites. It seems strange that in a uniformed service they have
a choice to wear whichever uniform they prefer.

The local commander decides what uniform is worn. The Regulations go
on for literally pages about which commanders have authority to
prescribe uniforms for which areas. They were probably making a guess
at what the uniform of the day would be at Gitmo, and guessed wrong.

Post by The Mullen
3, Also interesting that the Marine Barracks C.O points out "those
faggoty white uniforms". Would a marine commander have a problem with
navy personnel wearing the whites.

"Summer White" (white short sleeve shirt and long white pants) is
generally worn ashore for indoor office work. It would make someone a
nice target in a hostile area.

There are two different khaki uniforms for officers and chiefs.
"Service khaki" is polyester with short sleeves and ribbons, usually
for warm weather shore duty, "working khaki" is poly/cotton and can be
worn with long or short sleeve shirts and is a common uniform at sea.

Post by The Mullen
4, Again same film, Tom Cruise notices that Jack Nicholson (Colonel)
is wearing his class E uniform for court. Does he (Jack) have a choice
in how he can present himself in court?

No, see above. USMC greens = navy blues.

Post by The Mullen
5, Haven't seen this style in Jag, but in GI Jane, at the base where
they start SEAL training, the navy personnel including Demi as she
arrives are all wearing black. When the Captain who appears to be
wearing regular blues in his office addresses the trainees, next he is
wearing full black but with a regular Captains cap. Does this uniform
actually exist in the navy and is it only confined to SEAL camps?

Never seen the movie, but "winter blue" is a blue (looks black)
poly/wool long sleeve shirt worn with ribbons and black tie and blue
(black) pants. It has collar rank pins for officers and chiefs and a
sleeve rating badge for E-6 and below. This is a cold-weather duty
uniform, we used to call it the "Johnny Cash." The same with no
ribbons and no tie is "working blue."

Post by The Mullen
So the navy can choose black, khakhi, blues or whites (excluding
formal dress white)?

Yes, there are really too many uniforms. They've got a big program
going now trying to eliminate some.

Post by The Mullen
And the marines can choose just green and take the jacket off still
green but with khakhi shirt underneath.

The greens with coat is Service Dress A, with no coat, long sleeve
shirt and tie it's Service Dress B, and with short sleeve shirt and no
tie it's Service Dress C. The local commander prescribes which is
worn depending on formality and weather.

regards,
Jack

[The Mullen]

thanks Jack; this explains a lot. Forgot to ask where the jumpers with
shoulder boards fit in

P.S. GI Jane not much cop by the way!

Post by White Jacket

Post by The Mullen
I was looking at the official jag website
www.paramount.com/television/jag
and something struck me about Catherine Bell's uniform. It looks like
the rest of the cast are wearing their court appearance uniforms, and
Catherine's is same colour, but she wears her Green uniform in court.
I've never seen her in this uniform. If this is infact her dress
uniform; should the rest of the cast be wearing dress whites if they
were all meant to be wearing equivelant classes of uniform.

Yes, it is the USMC dress blue uniform. There are a few dressy
occasions when the Navy uniform is Service Dress Blue (blue/black coat
and tie for officers/chiefs, blue crackerjacks for E-6 and below) and
the equivalent Marine uniform is Blue Dress B (blues with ribbons
instead of medals).
The Marines and the Army have special blue dress uniforms, while the
Navy, USAF and USCG use their coat-and-tie service uniforms for full
dress. The Navy Service Dress Blue is equivalent to a civilian
business suit, which is why it is worn in court. For full dress, it
is worn with full size decorations and medals instead of ribbons,
white gloves and a sword for officers (sword optional for lieutenant
and below).
The USMC green service dress is usually equivalent to USN service
dress blue.
The USN officers' "dress whites" are actually called Service Dress
White, the warm weather version of the blues. The Uniform Regs SAY
this is equivalent to civilian suit and tie, but nobody ever wears
them except for dressy occasions. Like the blues, adding medals and
sword makes them full dress. USN officers and chiefs used to have a
khaki coat and tie uniform for warm weather that was less formal than
the whites but more formal than the short sleeve khakis or whites, but
this has been gone for 25 years or more.

Post by The Mullen
Also some other questions: -
1, How is it that appears everyone wears the same uniform at the same
time. i.e if they are in blues, everyone's in blues; likewise khaki
and whites? Is tomorrow's dress code posted on a board the night
before.

It's posted/announced every morning. The uniform of the day is
usually a "service" uniform, and the Navy can be pretty picky about
this. If you are wearing a "working" uniform you have to change to go
to chow, that sort of thing.

Post by The Mullen
2, Can someone determine by themselves that tomorrow I'll wear whites;
in A Few Good Men, Kevin Pollack says to Tom Cruise before they fly to
Cuba "remember to wear the whites", when they get there Demi Moore is
wearing khaki and the two herberts are standing out like sore thumbs
wearing whites. It seems strange that in a uniformed service they have
a choice to wear whichever uniform they prefer.

The local commander decides what uniform is worn. The Regulations go
on for literally pages about which commanders have authority to
prescribe uniforms for which areas. They were probably making a guess
at what the uniform of the day would be at Gitmo, and guessed wrong.

Post by The Mullen
3, Also interesting that the Marine Barracks C.O points out "those
faggoty white uniforms". Would a marine commander have a problem with
navy personnel wearing the whites.

"Summer White" (white short sleeve shirt and long white pants) is
generally worn ashore for indoor office work. It would make someone a
nice target in a hostile area.
There are two different khaki uniforms for officers and chiefs.
"Service khaki" is polyester with short sleeves and ribbons, usually
for warm weather shore duty, "working khaki" is poly/cotton and can be
worn with long or short sleeve shirts and is a common uniform at sea.

Post by The Mullen
4, Again same film, Tom Cruise notices that Jack Nicholson (Colonel)
is wearing his class E uniform for court. Does he (Jack) have a choice
in how he can present himself in court?

No, see above. USMC greens = navy blues.

Post by The Mullen
5, Haven't seen this style in Jag, but in GI Jane, at the base where
they start SEAL training, the navy personnel including Demi as she
arrives are all wearing black. When the Captain who appears to be
wearing regular blues in his office addresses the trainees, next he is
wearing full black but with a regular Captains cap. Does this uniform
actually exist in the navy and is it only confined to SEAL camps?

Never seen the movie, but "winter blue" is a blue (looks black)
poly/wool long sleeve shirt worn with ribbons and black tie and blue
(black) pants. It has collar rank pins for officers and chiefs and a
sleeve rating badge for E-6 and below. This is a cold-weather duty
uniform, we used to call it the "Johnny Cash." The same with no
ribbons and no tie is "working blue."

Post by The Mullen
So the navy can choose black, khakhi, blues or whites (excluding
formal dress white)?

Yes, there are really too many uniforms. They've got a big program
going now trying to eliminate some.

Post by The Mullen
And the marines can choose just green and take the jacket off still
green but with khakhi shirt underneath.

The greens with coat is Service Dress A, with no coat, long sleeve
shirt and tie it's Service Dress B, and with short sleeve shirt and no
tie it's Service Dress C. The local commander prescribes which is
worn depending on formality and weather.
regards,
Jack

[Joe Davila]

There are also some specialty uniforms. For example, Naval avaition type
may wear a green uniform very much like the Marine greens. Speaking of
airdales, chiefs and above can wear brown shoes with the khakis and other
uniforms while the rest of us wear black shoes. Since the Marines do not
have Corpsmen, they use Navy Corpsmen. When attached to a marine unit, HMs
can wear Marine uniform. The HM still wears Navy rank insignias.
Intresting to see a Marine with a Navy crow.

Joe
USN (RET)

[The Mullen]

Post by Joe Davila
There are also some specialty uniforms. For example, Naval avaition type
may wear a green uniform very much like the Marine greens. Speaking of
airdales, chiefs and above can wear brown shoes with the khakis and other
uniforms while the rest of us wear black shoes. Since the Marines do not
have Corpsmen, they use Navy Corpsmen. When attached to a marine unit, HMs
can wear Marine uniform. The HM still wears Navy rank insignias.
Intresting to see a Marine with a Navy crow.
Joe
USN (RET)

Interesting about the speciality uniforms; so a flying fellow could
wear anything from whites (dress & service), dress blues, khakis
(service & working), the green 'marine style' you mention above,
winter blues (service & working) - this is 8 possible uniforms and we
haven't even got onto the outerwear, flight suits and the leather
jackets that as flyers I believe they are also allowed to wear!

I suppose outerwear creates a whole problem in itself too. In Under
Siege Commander Krill can be seen wearing a KHAKI harrington style zip
jacket over (let's think about it now) his service khakis. Later on in
the film he wears a BLACK Peacoat style jacket with epaulets denoting
rank over the same uniform.

In Crimson Tide whilst the officers were waiting in the bus to be
dispatched to their sub, they are "all" wearing GREEN harrington style
zip jacket over Khakis.

So I suppose the question is, is the outerwear specified also as part
of the 'UNIFORM OF THE DAY'

[Joe Davila]

Post by The Mullen
In Crimson Tide whilst the officers were waiting in the bus to be
dispatched to their sub, they are "all" wearing GREEN harrington style
zip jacket over Khakis.

Those are the M1 foul weather coats. Very popular.

Joe
USN (RET)

[White Jacket]

Post by The Mullen
Interesting about the speciality uniforms; so a flying fellow could
wear anything from whites (dress & service), dress blues, khakis
(service & working), the green 'marine style' you mention above,
winter blues (service & working) - this is 8 possible uniforms and we
haven't even got onto the outerwear, flight suits and the leather
jackets that as flyers I believe they are also allowed to wear!

I don't know if it's still authorized, but the aviation green uniform,
called "Aviation Working Green" was kind of an oddball. It was a wool
jacket with shirt and tie, but was considered a "working" uniform and
was not supposed to be worn off the flight line. I don't think it was
required, even for aviators and NFOs, so a CO couldn't prescribe it.
Likewise the flight suits and leather jackets were not supposed to be
worn except for flight duty. You were allowed to wear them to and
from work, but were not supposed to stop at a restaurant or anything.
This may have been relaxed in the past 10+ years, though...

Post by The Mullen
I suppose outerwear creates a whole problem in itself too. In Under
Siege Commander Krill can be seen wearing a KHAKI harrington style zip
jacket over (let's think about it now) his service khakis. Later on in
the film he wears a BLACK Peacoat style jacket with epaulets denoting
rank over the same uniform.

Never seen that movie, either! The khaki windbreaker used to be
authorized with khakis, but I believe the black windbreaker is now
standard with khaki and winter blue. There's a long bridge coat for
officers, heavy wool with gold buttons, which has shoulder boards.
There's also a plain black raincoat for everyone, with metal rank pins
on the shoulders for officers. AND, a rare thing called the reefer
which is an officer version of the short peacoat with shoulder boards
and gold buttons. Even more rare, officers have the option of a cape
for evening dress!

Post by The Mullen
In Crimson Tide whilst the officers were waiting in the bus to be
dispatched to their sub, they are "all" wearing GREEN harrington style
zip jacket over Khakis.

Yes, the popular foul weather jacket which was "organizational
clothing," for those whose duty required standing on the deck in the
wind and weather, and also for storekeepers and storekeepers' good
buddies!

Post by The Mullen
So I suppose the question is, is the outerwear specified also as part
of the 'UNIFORM OF THE DAY'

There are usually a couple authorized outergarments for each uniform
(raincoat, peacoat, windbreaker etc.) and it's the wearer's option.

regards,
Jack

[Suzanne Harchik]

I've tried finding something out at the official US Navy website
(www.navy.mil) about the dress codes, and it's not as easy to find as one
might think. For instance, I notice on the show that all of the woman where
yellow gold ball earrings. Is there a particular size, color, that is only
allowed? Can they wear pearls or other earrings? I imagine there has to be
some limit, and I don't know if jewelery would be allowed in combat/flying
situations. I'm presuming that men still are not allowed to go around with
any pierced ears while in uniform..

Also, I seem to recall in earlier episodes, that the "non-com" uniforms,
like what the petty officers wear, looks like it has changed slightly over
the years, esp. for women. Was there a time when the female enlisted also
wore the traditional sailor shirt and a long skirt, instead of what Coates
wears now, which looks very similar to Harriet's uniform?

Post by White Jacket

Post by The Mullen
Interesting about the speciality uniforms; so a flying fellow could
wear anything from whites (dress & service), dress blues, khakis
(service & working), the green 'marine style' you mention above,
winter blues (service & working) - this is 8 possible uniforms and we
haven't even got onto the outerwear, flight suits and the leather
jackets that as flyers I believe they are also allowed to wear!

I don't know if it's still authorized, but the aviation green uniform,
called "Aviation Working Green" was kind of an oddball. It was a wool
jacket with shirt and tie, but was considered a "working" uniform and
was not supposed to be worn off the flight line. I don't think it was
required, even for aviators and NFOs, so a CO couldn't prescribe it.
Likewise the flight suits and leather jackets were not supposed to be
worn except for flight duty. You were allowed to wear them to and
from work, but were not supposed to stop at a restaurant or anything.
This may have been relaxed in the past 10+ years, though...

Post by The Mullen
I suppose outerwear creates a whole problem in itself too. In Under
Siege Commander Krill can be seen wearing a KHAKI harrington style zip
jacket over (let's think about it now) his service khakis. Later on in
the film he wears a BLACK Peacoat style jacket with epaulets denoting
rank over the same uniform.

Never seen that movie, either! The khaki windbreaker used to be
authorized with khakis, but I believe the black windbreaker is now
standard with khaki and winter blue. There's a long bridge coat for
officers, heavy wool with gold buttons, which has shoulder boards.
There's also a plain black raincoat for everyone, with metal rank pins
on the shoulders for officers. AND, a rare thing called the reefer
which is an officer version of the short peacoat with shoulder boards
and gold buttons. Even more rare, officers have the option of a cape
for evening dress!

Post by The Mullen
In Crimson Tide whilst the officers were waiting in the bus to be
dispatched to their sub, they are "all" wearing GREEN harrington style
zip jacket over Khakis.

Yes, the popular foul weather jacket which was "organizational
clothing," for those whose duty required standing on the deck in the
wind and weather, and also for storekeepers and storekeepers' good
buddies!

Post by The Mullen
So I suppose the question is, is the outerwear specified also as part
of the 'UNIFORM OF THE DAY'

There are usually a couple authorized outergarments for each uniform
(raincoat, peacoat, windbreaker etc.) and it's the wearer's option.
regards,
Jack

[kirk]

Post by Suzanne Harchik
I've tried finding something out at the official US Navy website
(www.navy.mil) about the dress codes, and it's not as easy to find as one
might think. For instance, I notice on the show that all of the woman where

Search for "NAVPERS 15665I", it is the US Navy Uniform Regulations. The
site that I had book marked is now down.

[Ann]

I found something one time, I guess it was on the navy website
somewhere, that was this huge PDF file of the uniform regs handbook,
with the different types of uniforms and what went with each and a
picture of someone wearing it and all...

Way more info than I was actually looking for at the time, but it was
rather amusing to see pictures of people in varying degrees of a
tropical uniform...the top part was pretty much the same, with the same
white shoes and socks, but with bermuda-type shorts instead of pants.

Think Captain Stubing here...

Post by kirk

Post by Suzanne Harchik
I've tried finding something out at the official US Navy website
(www.navy.mil) about the dress codes, and it's not as easy to find as one
might think. For instance, I notice on the show that all of the woman

where
Search for "NAVPERS 15665I", it is the US Navy Uniform Regulations. The
site that I had book marked is now down.

[The Mullen]

Post by Ann
I found something one time, I guess it was on the navy website
somewhere, that was this huge PDF file of the uniform regs handbook,
with the different types of uniforms and what went with each and a
picture of someone wearing it and all...
Way more info than I was actually looking for at the time, but it was
rather amusing to see pictures of people in varying degrees of a
tropical uniform...the top part was pretty much the same, with the same
white shoes and socks, but with bermuda-type shorts instead of pants.
Think Captain Stubing here...

Yes, I found it. This is a funny picture!

http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/chapter3/chap3_3235.html

[ldydrlng]

Post by The Mullen

Post by Ann
white shoes and socks, but with bermuda-type shorts instead of pants.
Think Captain Stubing here...

Yes, I found it. This is a funny picture!
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/chapter3/chap3_3235.html

Do they have to wear the socks pulled up?
Poor things.

marie

[LadyC]

Post by ldydrlng

Post by The Mullen

Post by Ann
white shoes and socks, but with bermuda-type shorts instead of pants.
Think Captain Stubing here...

Yes, I found it. This is a funny picture!
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/508/unireg/chapter3/chap3_3235.html

Do they have to wear the socks pulled up?
Poor things.
marie

Would look a lot sillier with the socks folded down

[ARGGUY]

Organizational clothing: I was stationed at Argentia Newfoundland
From OCT 70-OCT 74: I was issued the green foul weather jacket (like
Crimson Tide). I was in COMFAIR Keflavik Iceland from OCT 78-OCT 81:
I was issued the 'really nice' "Air Force Parka" - Had a "mismash" of
unform outer wear there. Had one new AWC who just loved wearing the
"Aviation Greens" also AW's, pilots and NFO's on staff could where
their leather flight jackets "on base - to and from work" with the
winter blue or working blue uniform - which were "uniform of the day"
year 'round. Oh yea - just remembered in Newfoundland, we could wear
the black ear-flap "trooper hat" with dungarees, or undress blues; O's
winter blues. I sometimes wore undress blues with the wool jersey
underneath (this was back in my YN3-YN2 days) -- Seem to remember a
line from Navy Uniform regs about "local commanders" being authorized
to "modifiy" uniform items/requirements to fit local climatic
conditions. All Organizational clothing was "supposed" to be turned
in when transfering out. I think the going rate for the Air Force
parka was $25.00 if it "accidentally" got packed out in your household
goods shipment.. A steal at that price!! ;-) We had two supply types
on staff there an AKC and an AKAN. The AKAN's job included about
twice a month going to the Navy Exchange dry cleaners and put in and
pick up the turned-in parkas.

Russ
YNC USN-ret

Post by White Jacket

Post by The Mullen
Interesting about the speciality uniforms; so a flying fellow could
wear anything from whites (dress & service), dress blues, khakis
(service & working), the green 'marine style' you mention above,
winter blues (service & working) - this is 8 possible uniforms and we
haven't even got onto the outerwear, flight suits and the leather
jackets that as flyers I believe they are also allowed to wear!

I don't know if it's still authorized, but the aviation green uniform,
called "Aviation Working Green" was kind of an oddball. It was a wool
jacket with shirt and tie, but was considered a "working" uniform and
was not supposed to be worn off the flight line. I don't think it was
required, even for aviators and NFOs, so a CO couldn't prescribe it.
Likewise the flight suits and leather jackets were not supposed to be
worn except for flight duty. You were allowed to wear them to and
from work, but were not supposed to stop at a restaurant or anything.
This may have been relaxed in the past 10+ years, though...

Post by The Mullen
I suppose outerwear creates a whole problem in itself too. In Under
Siege Commander Krill can be seen wearing a KHAKI harrington style zip
jacket over (let's think about it now) his service khakis. Later on in
the film he wears a BLACK Peacoat style jacket with epaulets denoting
rank over the same uniform.

Never seen that movie, either! The khaki windbreaker used to be
authorized with khakis, but I believe the black windbreaker is now
standard with khaki and winter blue. There's a long bridge coat for
officers, heavy wool with gold buttons, which has shoulder boards.
There's also a plain black raincoat for everyone, with metal rank pins
on the shoulders for officers. AND, a rare thing called the reefer
which is an officer version of the short peacoat with shoulder boards
and gold buttons. Even more rare, officers have the option of a cape
for evening dress!

Post by The Mullen
In Crimson Tide whilst the officers were waiting in the bus to be
dispatched to their sub, they are "all" wearing GREEN harrington style
zip jacket over Khakis.

Yes, the popular foul weather jacket which was "organizational
clothing," for those whose duty required standing on the deck in the
wind and weather, and also for storekeepers and storekeepers' good
buddies!

Post by The Mullen
So I suppose the question is, is the outerwear specified also as part
of the 'UNIFORM OF THE DAY'

There are usually a couple authorized outergarments for each uniform
(raincoat, peacoat, windbreaker etc.) and it's the wearer's option.
regards,
Jack

[The Mullen]

Post by Joe Davila
There are also some specialty uniforms. For example, Naval avaition type
may wear a green uniform very much like the Marine greens. Speaking of
airdales, chiefs and above can wear brown shoes with the khakis and other
uniforms while the rest of us wear black shoes. Since the Marines do not
have Corpsmen, they use Navy Corpsmen. When attached to a marine unit, HMs
can wear Marine uniform. The HM still wears Navy rank insignias.
Intresting to see a Marine with a Navy crow.
Joe
USN (RET)

khakhi, greens, whites, blues, winter blues and found a picture of the
grays elewhere in this group. This one couldn't have been around too
long though as I've never seen it in a film.

Loading Image...

[Joe Davila]

Post by The Mullen
khakhi, greens, whites, blues, winter blues and found a picture of the
grays elewhere in this group. This one couldn't have been around too
long though as I've never seen it in a film.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/k14000/k14128.jpg

If I remember correctly, that one was used by the reserves. I think it's a
great looking uniform.

Joe
USN (RET)

[ldydrlng]

Post by Joe Davila

Post by The Mullen
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/k14000/k14128.jpg

If I remember correctly, that one was used by the reserves. I think it's a
great looking uniform.

The Navy has the best looking uniforms. Even the covers aren't bad.

marie

[The Mullen]

Post by ldydrlng
The Navy has the best looking uniforms. Even the covers aren't bad.
marie

I agree Marie.., what are covers by the way?

[Joe Davila]

Post by The Mullen

Post by ldydrlng
The Navy has the best looking uniforms. Even the covers aren't bad.
marie

I agree Marie.., what are covers by the way?

Hats.

Joe
USN (RET)

[Fred Burgess]

They go on the the head :)

A hat in layman terms :)

Post by The Mullen

Post by ldydrlng
The Navy has the best looking uniforms. Even the covers aren't bad.
marie

I agree Marie.., what are covers by the way?

[Ann]

Post by ldydrlng
The Navy has the best looking uniforms. Even the covers aren't bad.
marie

I must disagree...I think the women's covers are silly looking. Why
can't they wear the same kinds of covers the men wear? Don't the women
in other branches of the military wear the same kinds of covers as the men?

Ok, partially answering my own question...Mac's really dressed up
uniform has a different hat, which is kind of tall and round, which is
different, but then again, most of the time she wears a garrison cap
(isn't that what that style is called? Someone correct me if I'm wrong)
which I kind of like.

[Joe Davila]

Garrison cap is correct. I liked mine because it was cheap (under $3-4 when
I was on active duty) and easy to store. I'm glad they went to garrison
caps for E6 and below. It looks so much better than the dixie cups on the
winter blue uniform.

When all the enlisted wore the combination cap, beret was considered for
submarine sailors. This was in part to the limited space onboard.
Reportedly, one of the reason "they" decided no was the fact that women used
berets.

Joe
USN (RET)

Post by Ann
Ok, partially answering my own question...Mac's really dressed up
uniform has a different hat, which is kind of tall and round, which is
different, but then again, most of the time she wears a garrison cap
(isn't that what that style is called? Someone correct me if I'm wrong)
which I kind of like.

[Brent McKee]

Post by Joe Davila
Garrison cap is correct. I liked mine because it was cheap (under $3-4 when
I was on active duty) and easy to store. I'm glad they went to garrison
caps for E6 and below. It looks so much better than the dixie cups on the
winter blue uniform.
When all the enlisted wore the combination cap, beret was considered for
submarine sailors. This was in part to the limited space onboard.
Reportedly, one of the reason "they" decided no was the fact that women used
berets.

Off hand I wouldn't mention that to a British Royal Marine or to a
British Para -- the latter in particular are very proud of their
"Cherry Berets". (On the other hand the less said about Canadian
uniforms the better; twenty years of everyone including the Navy --
sorry "Maritime Command" as it was under unification -- wearing green
didn't exactly do a lot for morale.)
--
Brent McKee

To reply by email, please remove the capital letters (S and N) from
the email address

"If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly,
in one which is infinitely worse."
- Margaret Atwood

"Nothing is more dangerous than a dogmatic worldview - nothing more
constraining, more blinding to innovation, more destructive of
openness to novelty. "
- Stephen Jay Gould (1941-2002)

[Tom McGarry]

Grey uniform was a WWII uniform for officers. Don't believe chiefs had them,
just officers. Probably meant to be "war like" just like the dark blue dixie
cup hats worn for a time also during WWII.

Post by Joe Davila

Post by The Mullen
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/k14000/k14128.jpg

If I remember correctly, that one was used by the reserves. I think it's a
great looking uniform.
Joe
USN (RET)

[kirk]

Post by Tom McGarry
Grey uniform was a WWII uniform for officers. Don't believe chiefs had them,
just officers. Probably meant to be "war like" just like the dark blue dixie
cup hats worn for a time also during WWII.

I think that you will find that they were grey because of a shortage of
dyes. Many things during the war took on alternate colors because of
shortages and rationing.

[Tom McGarry]

Post by kirk
I think that you will find that they were grey because of a shortage of
dyes. Many things during the war took on alternate colors because of
shortages and rationing.

White jacket is correct, I remember the story now. Senior officers get some
screwy ideas on uniforms. I remember back in the mid 60's, the Army CofS
decided that he didn't want to see tee shirts showing in open collars so he
decided that "u necked" tee shirts would be required and issued. Didn't last
long but a lot of troops had to spend their own money to buy "normal" tee
shirts.

[Jack Bagley]

Post by Tom McGarry
White jacket is correct, I remember the story now. Senior officers get some
screwy ideas on uniforms. I remember back in the mid 60's, the Army CofS
decided that he didn't want to see tee shirts showing in open collars so he
decided that "u necked" tee shirts would be required and issued. Didn't last
long but a lot of troops had to spend their own money to buy "normal" tee
shirts.

Oh, man, that reminds me of the changes to the Air Force uniforms in the
90s. CofS Gen. Merrill McPeak decided to totally re-do the entire Air Force
uniform line -- he changed the uniform blouse from the Army-style with patch
pockets to the three-button blazer, removed the "U.S." collar brass, tried
to do away with headgear entirely, and -- the most hated change -- shifted
officer rank from shoulder epaulets to sleeve braid, like the Navy's (except
it was silver in the Air Force). McPeak went to former President Richard
Nixon's funeral in that uniform...I thought at one point he was the chief of
staff of the Coast Guard Auxiliary or something when I first saw him. A
good friend of mine retired after that uniform was announced, saying, "If I
wanted to look like I worked for Delta Air Lines, I'd go to work for Delta
Air Lines."

The next Air Force CofS restored epaulets to the officer's service coat and
put pin-on rank back there, and authorized the "U.S." collar brass for
everyone -- same style for officers and enlisted. He kept the three-button
blazer blouse style, just reworked it to put an Air Force officer's rank
back where it belongs.

Jack

[Joe Davila]

I'm a USCGAux flotilla commander. Half my uniform is USAF already (shirt
and garrison cap). Cool!

Joe
USN (RET)

[White Jacket]

Post by The Mullen
khakhi, greens, whites, blues, winter blues and found a picture of the
grays elewhere in this group. This one couldn't have been around too
long though as I've never seen it in a film.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/k14000/k14128.jpg

Indeed, it was not around very long and was very unpopular while it
was around. That uniform was called "Gray Working" and was authorized
1943 to the end of WW II. It was a personal innovation of the wartime
head of the Navy, Adm Ernest King. He did not like the officers'
khaki working uniform because it was not a uniquely navy uniform and
was a very conspicuous contrast to the gray of navy vessels. He tried
to abolish khaki and replace it with grays, but there was so much
khaki out there that the war ended and King retired before the
changeover could happen. If you see a photo of an officer wearing
working gray, the odds are that he is assigned to Washington DC, or at
least the East Coast where King's influence was strong. Officers who
knew the score did not appear in khaki around the Navy Department.
Conversely, grays were despised in the Pacific, and the Pacific
Commander in Chief, Adm Nimitz, quickly abolished them when he
succeeded King as CNO after the war.

regards,
Jack

[Darth Dionysus]

Post by Joe Davila
There are also some specialty uniforms. For example, Naval avaition type
may wear a green uniform very much like the Marine greens. Speaking of
airdales, chiefs and above can wear brown shoes with the khakis and other
uniforms while the rest of us wear black shoes. Since the Marines do not
have Corpsmen, they use Navy Corpsmen. When attached to a marine unit, HMs
can wear Marine uniform. The HM still wears Navy rank insignias.
Intresting to see a Marine with a Navy crow.
Joe
USN (RET)

Several years ago (Late 70's, I think) I attended a Marine Corps Ball
where I saw a man wearing USMC Dress Blues and he had a beard. Turns
out he was a HMC. It looked VERY strange, considering the beard and all.

Semper Fi

[Suzanne Harchik]

Post by Suzanne Harchik
I've tried finding something out at the official US Navy website
(www.navy.mil) about the dress codes, and it's not as easy to find as one
might think. For instance, I notice on the show that all of the woman

wear

Post by Suzanne Harchik
yellow gold ball earrings. Is there a particular size, color, that is

only

Post by Suzanne Harchik
allowed? Can they wear pearls or other earrings? I imagine there has to

be

Post by Suzanne Harchik
some limit, and I don't know if jewelery would be allowed in combat/flying
situations. I'm presuming that men still are not allowed to go around with
any pierced ears while in uniform..
Also, I seem to recall in earlier episodes, that the "non-com" uniforms,
like what the petty officers wear, looks like it has changed slightly over
the years, esp. for women. Was there a time when the female enlisted also
wore the traditional sailor shirt and a long skirt, instead of what Coates
wears now, which looks very similar to Harriet's uniform?

Post by White Jacket

Post by The Mullen
Interesting about the speciality uniforms; so a flying fellow could
wear anything from whites (dress & service), dress blues, khakis
(service & working), the green 'marine style' you mention above,
winter blues (service & working) - this is 8 possible uniforms and we
haven't even got onto the outerwear, flight suits and the leather
jackets that as flyers I believe they are also allowed to wear!

I don't know if it's still authorized, but the aviation green uniform,
called "Aviation Working Green" was kind of an oddball. It was a wool
jacket with shirt and tie, but was considered a "working" uniform and
was not supposed to be worn off the flight line. I don't think it was
required, even for aviators and NFOs, so a CO couldn't prescribe it.
Likewise the flight suits and leather jackets were not supposed to be
worn except for flight duty. You were allowed to wear them to and
from work, but were not supposed to stop at a restaurant or anything.
This may have been relaxed in the past 10+ years, though...

Post by The Mullen
I suppose outerwear creates a whole problem in itself too. In Under
Siege Commander Krill can be seen wearing a KHAKI harrington style zip
jacket over (let's think about it now) his service khakis. Later on in
the film he wears a BLACK Peacoat style jacket with epaulets denoting
rank over the same uniform.

Never seen that movie, either! The khaki windbreaker used to be
authorized with khakis, but I believe the black windbreaker is now
standard with khaki and winter blue. There's a long bridge coat for
officers, heavy wool with gold buttons, which has shoulder boards.
There's also a plain black raincoat for everyone, with metal rank pins
on the shoulders for officers. AND, a rare thing called the reefer
which is an officer version of the short peacoat with shoulder boards
and gold buttons. Even more rare, officers have the option of a cape
for evening dress!

Post by The Mullen
In Crimson Tide whilst the officers were waiting in the bus to be
dispatched to their sub, they are "all" wearing GREEN harrington style
zip jacket over Khakis.

Yes, the popular foul weather jacket which was "organizational
clothing," for those whose duty required standing on the deck in the
wind and weather, and also for storekeepers and storekeepers' good
buddies!

Post by The Mullen
So I suppose the question is, is the outerwear specified also as part
of the 'UNIFORM OF THE DAY'

There are usually a couple authorized outergarments for each uniform
(raincoat, peacoat, windbreaker etc.) and it's the wearer's option.
regards,
Jack